Seton Hall Basketball: JP's 5 Thoughts- VU 84, SHU 76
by JPGuerette on Jan 19, 2012 10:01 AM EST
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PrintI honestly cannot believe my eyes.
This team started 15-2?! You wouldn't know it after tonight's extremely poor performance on the Main Line. It's their worst loss of the year, and the worst they've looked since Syracuse.
A late flurry didn't matter one iota. This game was sealed far before that.
Here are the 5 Thoughts. They are not for the faint of heart:
- Leadership??
Non-existent tonight. I don't recall a worse game that I've seen out of Jordan Theodore. He forced enough shots to choke and army of horses to death. The kick-out passes were there EVERY SINGLE TIME he took the ball into the paint on the drive, yet time and time again Theodore drove the ball blindly into the defense. He couldn't get around his man on defense, but instead of running solid offense, he tried some fancy dribbling that had no purpose whatsoever except to get Theodore riled up enough so that he would force a wild shot. The difference in the last two games has been Theodore- he's not making plays for others nearly as much. He's tried to be Kemba Walker and he just plain isn't that type of player. Two games in a row this has happened. Trying to lead a young team is one thing, but trying to do everything yourself is another thing altogether.
Coach Willard said that he had talked with Jordan following the USF game and that Jordan was prepared to put that game behind him. Yeah, that didn't happen. Not by a long, forced, unnecessary shot.
- Shooting???
It picked up in the second half, as more open shots were made. But the collective effort from the perimeter in the first half was putrid. Villanova's defensive gameplan was to pack the paint on all drives. That left countless kick-out opportunities. Those were made by the Pirates when they were denied passage into the lane. The shots were not falling at all. They were wide open, but none were dropping. They dropped in the second half. I really cannot fault the Pirates for continuing to shoot the ball, because the makes were bound to come with all the open looks they got. But this game would have been different if some of those shots dropped.
- Foul Issues
Surely the gameplan was not to allow the Wildcats to get to the line FORTY ONE TIMES. Surely the gameplan wasn't to hand the best free throw shooting team in the entire conference nearly 35 free points. There were a number of bad calls by the officials, but Seton Hall put the Wildcats on the line way too much. JayVaughn Pinkston shot more free throws than the Pirates did. There's your main difference in the game, score-wise. The Wildcats got 27 of their 47 second-half points from the free throw line. Try and comprehend that for a second. The defense was great for Seton Hall in the second half. But they fouled too much. And these were not effort fouls- the majority were dumb fouls, such as not playing straight up and down on help defense, not moving your feet instead of reaching in, and other things that my high school coach would have benched the star player for doing.
- Mob Rush
Thank goodness for Brandon Mobley. The freshman forward has been huge off the bench ever since he returned from his injury. He hit all three of his triples in the first half (the rest of the team was 0-14), the biggest reason the score was as close as it was at the half. He scored 12 PTS off the bench and it gave the Pirates a lift they really needed. Quite honestly, if Patrik Auda can't demonstrate that he can play the first 10 minutes of the ballgame without fouling, Mobley's played well enough to be able to start.
- Disturbing Trend
The team, and specifically Theodore, isn't playing well at all. Old habits are starting to resurface with the point guard, and they are spreading to the rest of the team through the scoreboard and the results. I said that USF was a bad loss because of how the loss occurred as much as to whom it occurred. I also said that because of the last 6 minutes against the Bulls, this game needed to be the one the team bounced back in, to get the way they played out that game in Tampa as far out of their minds as possible. It didn't happen.
Now there is a full week off between games for the coaching staff to re-focus the team on doing what made them great. Not just good, great. The next two home games are of paramount importance. Notre Dame and Louisville are teams that the Pirates can definitely beat in Newark. The ship needs to be righted, and fast. Sure, the record still says 15-4. But the season doesn't end today.
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Trouble
If our opponent’s gameplan only needs to be as simple as attack the basket and get Pope and Auda in to foul trouble early. And also to put their best perimeter defender on Theodore and force him to take shots on the move, do we really expect to rebound from these two losses. We have no depth to bolster our frontcourt. Of late, we are really, really living and dying (mostly dying) by the 3. Reminds me of GonzoBall.
Tell me why should shouldn’t be pushing the panic button?
The blueprint to beat the Pirates was displayed in Syracuse, yet it wasn't until USF & 'Nova until an opponent really exposed us with it.
Once our opponent makes an effort to take away our inside game, we’re left to bomb away from deep. If we get off to a cold shooting start, we’re in a world of hurt and will often be playing from behind.
Pope’s getting double teamed on every touch down low, the attempts he gets off end up being blocked roughly half of the time. He has little help inside, Auda, who many counted on this preseason to provide that help down low, can hardly stay on the floor. When he is, he’s just not the inside presence some thought he could develop into. He does not play to his size and unless he has a clear path at a driving lineup he doesn’t have the post moves to contribute down low and take some attention away from Pope, that’s just the way it is. As SHURFC10 points out, we have no depth in the front court.
What can we improve on to offset this weakness? Our midgrange game. Where is it? Who on this team can consistently get off and make a mid-range jump shot? It’s a cruical part of the game when attacking the 2-3 zone. If our opponents are taking us away underneath, we HAVE TO be able to step out to 18 and knock down shots. Until our opponents respect that shot, it’s going to be more of the same, over and over again.
Founder & Editor of SouthOrangeJuice.Com
Bye, Bye, Bobby!
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Correction, the blueprint was perfected in Syracuse, but wasn't until USF and Nova to where another opponent took
advantage of it properly.
Founder & Editor of SouthOrangeJuice.Com
Bye, Bye, Bobby!
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by GonzoBallSHU on Jan 19, 2012 12:12 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, we were out coached and out played by 'Cuse.
Hey, they’re very good. But USF and Nova were different. USF was very winnable. It was a tight defensive game. We had shots but couldn’t make them. Fu missed 3 or 4 easy(and I stress easy) lay-ups in the first half and so did a few of the other guys. We didn’t have to lose that game. Nova was a different story, they out foxed us, simple as that. Yes, they out game-planned us, too. But they do what Nova usually does, they beat you at the foul line. Jay Wright has made a career out of teaching his team to create situations for fouls. We played a horrible game yet they only beat us by their foul shooting. And that advantage was amazing!
Gonzo, I really feel, as I said before, that the guys have hit a wall. They just don’t know what to do right now with the higher quality of player and coaching in the BE. They’re still talented but the players and coach don’t have an answer yet. If ND game-plans us like ’Cuse they might finally have and answer by then. We can hope.
Anytime you shoot more 3s than 2point field goals your going to lose the game. We shot 71 times and 36 were from 3 points. Last night there was a huge home court advantage with the way the fouls were called last night. So large it required you JP to include it in your final thoughts.. Can Anyone say Home Cooking. The game was lost on the boards 45-36 does not seem like much but most were offensive. Can anybody put an APB out onMr. Pope. Dude hasn’t shown up since that weak-ass Non-Conference schedule. I remember all those headlines Herb the Great etc. but he is a know show now. Seems to me the only consistant player has been JT. Sure get off the band wagon now like most fans due. He has had a rough stretch the last 2 outtings. But dude has been your only consistant player for SHU. His numbers havent dropped in The East they ONLY GOT BETTER. You still havent pointed that out.. Time for me get off the soap box. It was a bad loss from the NCAA stand point. But who hasn’t had a bad loss this year. Everyone except
I don't really understand what your saying...
Herb Pope’s numbers have ‘only got better’ since Big East play? Are you sure about that?
Re: The foul disparity in the foul shots, if you read the recap you would see I pointed out, it’s not really 41 free throws. 10 were when Seton Hall was in “intentional foul” mode, 2 others came from Mobley’s intentional. So that’s 29-16, if you then factor in the 36 attempts from 3PT distance and how early ‘Nova got into the bonus (whether by ticky-tack fouls or not), it’s easy to see where the difference in throws came from.
Founder & Editor of SouthOrangeJuice.Com
Bye, Bye, Bobby!
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by GonzoBallSHU on Jan 19, 2012 4:01 PM EST up reply actions
SB Nation New York reaction piece...
… to Seton Hall’s current two-game skid.
Seton Hall Basketball: Is It Time For Pirates Fans To Push The Panic Button?
via JaredSmithCNY
Get busy living or get busy dying.
Repeat after me, "Count to ten, breathe in, breath out, breathe in, breath out
Ok, if you look closely at my name, SHULS 92, you may be able to deduce that I am on the older side of say 45…grew up in South Orange, and have been attending games since 1989. I have seen the legions of Walsh come and go and let me make some observations.
1. We should all be very excited that our team is 15-4, 4-3 at this juncture of the season, if anyone told you this was going to happen, everyone would say, “I will take it”
2. NCAA bball is like econ 101, “whatever goes down must come up and vice versa”…While I was thrilled with our 15-2 start and 4-1 in BE, I knew it was not going to last…KW is right, this is a very very young team that is adjusting to this. even Herb and JT have never played under these situations.
3. It is always the last 10 that count, so it is good to get the losing out of the way now.
4. We are not getting blown out…(except cuse, everyone lays an egg, i.e. UNC)
5. If season were to end today, we would dance with probably an 8 seed…
6. RPI is not dramatically effected…we are stil probably a consensus low 20s…
7. Maybe time to let Mobley start
8. Fu is our glue, but remember he is a sophomore, he will have bad games
9. even if we went 5-6 before BET, we would still dance (20-10, 9-9)
10. Next four will determine our season…we need to go 2-2 in my opinion to keep things going.
Jordan Theodore
I think what JP said in the article about JT was right. But the thing that bothers me is that there are 2 former big east point guards on the coaching staff. I didnt see any of them say something to him the whole game. He played out of control, rushed shots and made bad desions. If i relized that and they probably did too. I just cant understand why they dont say something to him i really dont.
by setonhall44 on Jan 19, 2012 4:25 PM EST via iPhone app reply actions
I have heard two statements about Seton Hall that wasn't well informed.......
I listened to Hall-line for the first time in a long time and after hearing one of the WSOU Announcers make the statement that Herb Pope’s game hasn’t changed showed a lack of being well informed. Herb Pope was averaging 20 ooints per game in the Non-Conference schedule. His numbers has gone down sharply in Big East play. Just check the record.
The other statement made was about what was the worst loss for the Pirates. The ESPN guys made the statement that because Villanova’s RPI ranking is currently at 105. Seton Hall’s lost to them will drop their RPI rankings next week. This will be clearly Seton Hall’s worst lose so far this season.
Thanks to the guys on WABC doing the game, the reason for Seton Hall lose to Villanova was many and not just directed to one guy (Theodore). But the summation of these reason is that Seton Hall players are reacting badly to all of the attention they have been getting since getting ranked.
And just like the Coaches and players of Seton Hall take a look at videos of their opponent, The Big East opponent have been taking a look at videos of Seton Hall (especially) Theodore and Herb Pope. The Big East teams figured out Jordan and Herb’s game and they are not make any adjustments to it.
Not sure what you mean by the first two paragraphs
Who was ill-informed in those respective cases?
Twitter: @JPGuerette
Email: jason.guerette@student.shu.edu
Pope and the Game
Look – Herb Pope is the life and soul of the team. He is the guy that normally looks like he’s having the most fun on the court and that is usually when he’s effective. Look at the beginning of just about every game – the ball goes into his hands and he has made a fade-away shot or taken it to the hole. Knowing Herb as I do – he needs to get back to the fun and enjoyment of playing basketball. His problems, I believe, are that. He has tired as the season has gone on and his boxing out has gotten lackadaisical.
It truly isn’t Herb’s fault though. The TEAM isn’t rebounding and last game, he solely was the only one boxing out. Fu was out jumping them – only in the second half and Mobley and Geramipoor only seemed to exist in the offensive end. Recipe to get out-rebounded – Have Herb Pope (one of the best rebounders in the BE) go up against 3 bodies.
As for the rest – It would take many pages to go over the rest of that loss. However, I was also disappointed that the coaching staff wasn’t trying to calm Jordan down. He was all over the place and got smothered by one of the best defensive point guards in the BE.
The 3’s discussion? Not very many were ill-advised. I was kind of shocked at how many wide-open ones they missed. I think that was the difference in the score. We just missed too many open shots. Their defense was not the greatest – except on Jordan and to be blunt – If we want to be a top 8 team in the BE (lets not worry about rankings nationally) we need to hit the open shots.
Lets get Pope and the boys back to having fun and our wins will follow.
I disagree
Jordan Theodore is the most important player on this team. Herb dominated against lesser competition, but ever since Dayton started doubling him every time he tried to dribble inside the arc, everyone’s been doing it. Seton Hall’s biggest wins this season (with the exception of Auburn- I consider that to be the first semi-big win of the year) have come when Pope hasn’t had that dominant performance that he had so many times early in the season- they’ve come when Theodore has played well.
The three biggest wins are undoubtedly Dayton, WVU, and UConn. Theodore’s lines from those three games:
@UD: 14 PTS, 8 AST, 2 TO, 5-10 FG, 2-3 3PM, 1 STL
vs WVU: 18 PTS, 8 AST, 0 TO, 7-14 FG, 2-4 3PM, 2 STL
vs UConn: 19 PTS, 11 AST, 4 TO, 4-11 FG, 3-4 3PM, 3 STL
As Theodore goes, so does the team. The numbers Pope put up were impressive, but the reason this team is who they are and one of if not the biggest reason they have been successful is that Theodore has been a consummate runner of the offense. Herb is important, but the numbers don’t lie- Jordan’s the key.
Twitter: @JPGuerette
Email: jason.guerette@student.shu.edu
Numbers
I’m not talking numbers. If you look at what I’m saying, I’m saying his attitude (certainly tag-teamed with Jordan’s) is the key to this team. If they get pepped up – so does the team. If they are down and their attitudes aren’t 110% positive, then so goes the team.
Certainly, I’ll agree to the point of Theodore’s stat lines. However, I’m not talking about points and the ball in his hand (we’re certainly better when theodore is making good decisions with the ball). I’m saying that they feed off of the energy that Pope brings. They are a better team when the team is feeding off Pope’s boyish attitude.
Just look at the video of Pope and Dill that surfaced just a few games back. They need to remember why they play the game and how much fun they can have. Stat lines and wins will follow but not until they get this pressure thats holding down their shoulders.
by TylerHall10 on Jan 19, 2012 10:20 PM EST up reply actions
They have hit a wall ...
and the rest of the league has caught up to them. Being ranked, something they are not used to, also threw them off thier game. i don’t say this to excuse the sloppy play, but it’s the reality of the situation.
JT, Pope and Fu looked tired from the opening tip these past few games. Maybe they have played a few minutes per game too many. A week off and a home game will cure that.
Coach Willard did not make the in game and halftime adjustments as he normally does. Coaches go into slumps as well. He and the rest of the staff will also benefit from the week off.
The wheels have not come off the bus. This is no time to panic. Just as the League adjusted to us, we willl adjust to the League. The Pirates will be back to ther winning ways in no time. Just believe. If we do the players will as well.
Nova beat the Johnnies in the Garden
They did not seem to play well but they had to overcome the refs, who acted like a 6th man for the Storm.
The Pirtates loss to the Wildcats may not be so bad after all.
I was at the garden for the game.
Nova is not a good team and they’re BORING, too boot. God, the wall we hit is probably the one that divides China. Get out the picks and the repelling equipment, we have a lot of work to do. ..I sat near a bunch of Nova fans during the game. All they did was complain about the refs’ calls. I told one of them that maybe he didn’t notice but he was in New York, we have our own rules. I also noticed that Jay Wright has a drama teacher on his staff. Guess he teaches acting for basketball…Every time an SJU player came near a Nova player they would grab themselves, bend over in pain or flop on the court like a trained seal. And Jay Wright prowling the side lines, looked like Hannibal Lector of SILENCE OF THE LAMBS! Whatta game!
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